The Telegram Problem + Gov. Kathy Hochul on School Phone Bans + Kevin's A.I. Reputation Rehab

Telegram’s founder, Pavel Durov, was arrested in France and charged with several crimes connected to his operation of the platform. We’ll tell you what the charges against him mean for the internet. Then Gov. Kathy Hochul, Democrat of New York, joins us to discuss why she wants to ban phones statewide in public schools. And finally, Kevin has been using secret codes to try to change what A.I. chatbots think of him. We get to the bottom of whether it is possible to manipulate A.I. outputs.

This episode contains discussion of suicide connected to youth mental health. If you are having thoughts of suicide, call or text 988 to reach the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline or go to SpeakingOfSuicide.com/resources for a list of additional resources.

Guest:

• Kathy Hochul, governor of New York

Additional Reading:

• How Pavel Durov, Telegram’s Founder, Went From Russia’s Mark Zuckerberg to Wanted Man
• Kathy Hochul’s ‘Big’ Plan to Ban Phones in Schools

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.